Comments on: Best of the Decade Derby: In the Mood (or not) and 13 ways of looking at Maggie Cheung http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/2009/02/best-of-the-decade-derby-in-the-mood-or-not-and-13-ways-of-looking-at-maggie-cheung/ Rounding up the last of the 1,000 greatest films of all time (banner: The Far Country [1954, Anthony Mann]) Follow on Twitter: alsolikelife Wed, 08 Sep 2010 11:53:39 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Shooting Down Pictures » Blog Archive » Poll: Chinese Films of the Decade http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/2009/02/best-of-the-decade-derby-in-the-mood-or-not-and-13-ways-of-looking-at-maggie-cheung/comment-page-1/#comment-36405 Shooting Down Pictures » Blog Archive » Poll: Chinese Films of the Decade Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:44:08 +0000 http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/?p=1211#comment-36405 [...] films of the last 10 years. I’m kind of whateverz about the top pick, which I’ve reflected upon already, but I think results are quite interesting. I didn’t expect West of the Tracks [...] [...] films of the last 10 years. I’m kind of whateverz about the top pick, which I’ve reflected upon already, but I think results are quite interesting. I didn’t expect West of the Tracks [...]

]]> By: 2 or 3 Things They Know About Film (March 2009) « videozu: shelf under ideas. http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/2009/02/best-of-the-decade-derby-in-the-mood-or-not-and-13-ways-of-looking-at-maggie-cheung/comment-page-1/#comment-32937 2 or 3 Things They Know About Film (March 2009) « videozu: shelf under ideas. Mon, 16 Mar 2009 01:19:40 +0000 http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/?p=1211#comment-32937 [...] Best of the Decade Derby: In the Mood (or not) and 13 ways of looking at Maggie Cheung by Kevin Lee Kevin Lee may be in the minority here. After watching In the Mood for Love eight years ago, and being underwhelmed by it, the author of Shooting Down Pictures blog discusses the bankrupt outcome of Wong Kar-Wai’s masterpiece. I disagree with him, of course, but it’s a worthwhile perspective. [...] [...] Best of the Decade Derby: In the Mood (or not) and 13 ways of looking at Maggie Cheung by Kevin Lee Kevin Lee may be in the minority here. After watching In the Mood for Love eight years ago, and being underwhelmed by it, the author of Shooting Down Pictures blog discusses the bankrupt outcome of Wong Kar-Wai’s masterpiece. I disagree with him, of course, but it’s a worthwhile perspective. [...]

]]> By: alsolikelife http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/2009/02/best-of-the-decade-derby-in-the-mood-or-not-and-13-ways-of-looking-at-maggie-cheung/comment-page-1/#comment-32935 alsolikelife Sun, 15 Mar 2009 23:38:24 +0000 http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/?p=1211#comment-32935 I speak and understand Mandarin, though not as fluently as I wish. That may have some measure of my appreciation of Chinese cinema, though I'm as likely to run into obstacles as the next person. Even with a film like FLOWERS OF SHANGHAI, which is spoken in Shanghaiese - there were complaints by at least one scholar that the dialogue is not authentic, especially that spoken by Michiko Hada's voiceover artist. <br><br>Yes, Maggie Cheung is amazing in ITMFL - there is no way possible to knock the acting of the two leads in that film (especially given the shit they had to put up with working with WKW). I speak and understand Mandarin, though not as fluently as I wish. That may have some measure of my appreciation of Chinese cinema, though I'm as likely to run into obstacles as the next person. Even with a film like FLOWERS OF SHANGHAI, which is spoken in Shanghaiese – there were complaints by at least one scholar that the dialogue is not authentic, especially that spoken by Michiko Hada's voiceover artist.

Yes, Maggie Cheung is amazing in ITMFL – there is no way possible to knock the acting of the two leads in that film (especially given the shit they had to put up with working with WKW).

]]> By: dogandpony http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/2009/02/best-of-the-decade-derby-in-the-mood-or-not-and-13-ways-of-looking-at-maggie-cheung/comment-page-1/#comment-32934 dogandpony Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:41:42 +0000 http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/?p=1211#comment-32934 Wow. Thanks for your candid and generous reply.<br>My first WKW was Chungking Express and I was hooked immediately. I see Fallen Angels as more of a style piece than most of his other films. Maybe it lacks the realism I am a sucker for. Though it is really beautiful and I think it can function on that level alone. I know what you mean about Days of Being Wild though. I would argue that Happy Together is the closest to it in tone.<br>Goodbye South, Goodbye was my first Hou and I thought it was just okay and Good Men, Good Women was the breakthrough for me. I am sort of a reverse reverse advocate (trying to fight my leftover punk/gen-x bias against anything "popular") and like to champion the 2000's Hou films in spite of their popularity (if that makes sense) because of just what you said- his evolving art. I think he is both exploring and honing formalist and visual techniques in a really singular way.<br>I haven't seen Useless but I hope to soon. The World was in fact my first Jia and at this point I would say I don't have a favorite.<br>I deleted a big part of my earlier reply that had to do with Johnathan Rosenbaum and your post on his influence on you at a critical period. I have wondered about what forms a critic's preferences. (JR prefers The Killing and Barry Lyndon to the Kubrick films that came between them? And Breathless to all other 60's Godard?) It's something that I have speculated about but I didn't think it was appropriate to post mere speculation in such a public way. I made a (maybe specious) connection as I looked at his list of top films and as I started to read more about your favorites. Thanks for your candidness and honesty! I found your address of the aspect of advocacy remarkable for its awareness and frankness. It honestly hadn't occurred to me. Maybe it's part of what separates true critical writing from someone pseudo-blogging their ideas without a filter or purpose (like me). And I would wholeheartedly agree with the three films you mention getting disproportionate hype over other, equally great or even greater, films by the same directors.<br>I would also largely agree about the earlier works exhibiting "visions at their freshest state" (well put). I think the reason all of this is so important to me is the better you get to know where someone is coming from critically, the better lens they become for examining things. <br>Okay, so I have another question for you. This came to mind when you wrote about seeing Cafe Lumiere without subtitles. Do you speak Mandarin? Cantonese? I don't (wish that I did. Cantonese is particularly beautiful to my ear). I have wondered if sometimes I can't as accurately gauge an acting performance that is in a language I can't understand. Might be why I love Shu Qi in Hou films, her performances being largely nonverbal. I don't think I have a definite answer to this for myself yet. I think Maggie Cheung (see how I brought it back around to the title of your post ;) is great in English or Chinese. The thing I noticed most from viewing ITMFL again last fall was her performance. The part where she is role playing his wife in their game of "how do you think it happened" blew me away. An actress playing a woman acting as another woman who makes a painful realization we see on her face, and her expression as she shifts from the character-in-a-character to her primary character...<br><br>Thanks again! Wow. Thanks for your candid and generous reply.
My first WKW was Chungking Express and I was hooked immediately. I see Fallen Angels as more of a style piece than most of his other films. Maybe it lacks the realism I am a sucker for. Though it is really beautiful and I think it can function on that level alone. I know what you mean about Days of Being Wild though. I would argue that Happy Together is the closest to it in tone.
Goodbye South, Goodbye was my first Hou and I thought it was just okay and Good Men, Good Women was the breakthrough for me. I am sort of a reverse reverse advocate (trying to fight my leftover punk/gen-x bias against anything “popular”) and like to champion the 2000's Hou films in spite of their popularity (if that makes sense) because of just what you said- his evolving art. I think he is both exploring and honing formalist and visual techniques in a really singular way.
I haven't seen Useless but I hope to soon. The World was in fact my first Jia and at this point I would say I don't have a favorite.
I deleted a big part of my earlier reply that had to do with Johnathan Rosenbaum and your post on his influence on you at a critical period. I have wondered about what forms a critic's preferences. (JR prefers The Killing and Barry Lyndon to the Kubrick films that came between them? And Breathless to all other 60's Godard?) It's something that I have speculated about but I didn't think it was appropriate to post mere speculation in such a public way. I made a (maybe specious) connection as I looked at his list of top films and as I started to read more about your favorites. Thanks for your candidness and honesty! I found your address of the aspect of advocacy remarkable for its awareness and frankness. It honestly hadn't occurred to me. Maybe it's part of what separates true critical writing from someone pseudo-blogging their ideas without a filter or purpose (like me). And I would wholeheartedly agree with the three films you mention getting disproportionate hype over other, equally great or even greater, films by the same directors.
I would also largely agree about the earlier works exhibiting “visions at their freshest state” (well put). I think the reason all of this is so important to me is the better you get to know where someone is coming from critically, the better lens they become for examining things.
Okay, so I have another question for you. This came to mind when you wrote about seeing Cafe Lumiere without subtitles. Do you speak Mandarin? Cantonese? I don't (wish that I did. Cantonese is particularly beautiful to my ear). I have wondered if sometimes I can't as accurately gauge an acting performance that is in a language I can't understand. Might be why I love Shu Qi in Hou films, her performances being largely nonverbal. I don't think I have a definite answer to this for myself yet. I think Maggie Cheung (see how I brought it back around to the title of your post ;) is great in English or Chinese. The thing I noticed most from viewing ITMFL again last fall was her performance. The part where she is role playing his wife in their game of “how do you think it happened” blew me away. An actress playing a woman acting as another woman who makes a painful realization we see on her face, and her expression as she shifts from the character-in-a-character to her primary character…

Thanks again!

]]> By: alsolikelife http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/2009/02/best-of-the-decade-derby-in-the-mood-or-not-and-13-ways-of-looking-at-maggie-cheung/comment-page-1/#comment-32931 alsolikelife Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:00:59 +0000 http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/?p=1211#comment-32931 Thanks, and I think your main point is the one that I more or less arrive at by the end of my post on ITMFL. <br><br>I'm not sure if I necessarily think WKW in the 00s isn't as good as his work in the 90s - I've just scrutinized it more thoroughly and more recently (haven't seen FALLEN ANGELS, CHUNGKING EXPRESS, DAYS OF BEING WILD or ASHES OF TIME in many years). Although I do think "second period Hou" is the best phase of his career to date, I am largely amazed by what he's done in the past decade in evolving his art while negotiating his status as an international expatriate filmmaker. As for Jia, hopefully soon I'll get around to revisiting PLATFORM, as well as USELESS (which I think is the only film of his this decade that can compete on the same level as PLATFORM). <br><br>I would say that part of my response to these directors' works is in part a reaction to how they are generally received. I feel that films like IN THE MOOD FOR LOVE, FLIGHT OF THE RED BALLOON and THE WORLD get more hyped that their other films because they're more accessible to (Western) audiences, of more topical interest to (Western) audiences, or they came at a time when (Western) they crossed over to being familiarized with (Western) audiences. Their earlier works, which typically exhibit their visions at their freshest state, tend to get underpraised. So maybe I'm reacting to that in some way, as part of criticism involves a degree of advocacy. <br><br>I'm sure that viewing a director's films in a certain order has some bearing on one's impression of them, though not sure to what degree that's important compared to other things (one's mood or station in life, familiarity with a certain kind of cinema, etc). FALLEN ANGELS was my first WKW and I wasn't terribly impressed - it was CHUNGKING EXPRESS that did it for me, and DAYS OF BEING WILD that put me over the top. Though I suspect if I watched FALLEN ANGELS again I'd like it even more than CHUNGKING EXPRESS. I watched CITY OF SADNESS as a teenager and slept through half of it; now it's arguably my all-time favorite film. It took me a month to get into Hou over the course of a multi-weekend retro in SF back in 2000. The first couple films lulled me to sleep. It was FLOWERS OF SHANGHAI that broke through and after that all his films started to fall into place. (and if you want to see everything that's missing in IN THE MOOD FOR LOVE, you'll find it in FLOWERS). With Jia, it was love at first sight, and it had a lot to do with the period of my life I was in... more on that in another post... Thanks, and I think your main point is the one that I more or less arrive at by the end of my post on ITMFL.

I'm not sure if I necessarily think WKW in the 00s isn't as good as his work in the 90s – I've just scrutinized it more thoroughly and more recently (haven't seen FALLEN ANGELS, CHUNGKING EXPRESS, DAYS OF BEING WILD or ASHES OF TIME in many years). Although I do think “second period Hou” is the best phase of his career to date, I am largely amazed by what he's done in the past decade in evolving his art while negotiating his status as an international expatriate filmmaker. As for Jia, hopefully soon I'll get around to revisiting PLATFORM, as well as USELESS (which I think is the only film of his this decade that can compete on the same level as PLATFORM).

I would say that part of my response to these directors' works is in part a reaction to how they are generally received. I feel that films like IN THE MOOD FOR LOVE, FLIGHT OF THE RED BALLOON and THE WORLD get more hyped that their other films because they're more accessible to (Western) audiences, of more topical interest to (Western) audiences, or they came at a time when (Western) they crossed over to being familiarized with (Western) audiences. Their earlier works, which typically exhibit their visions at their freshest state, tend to get underpraised. So maybe I'm reacting to that in some way, as part of criticism involves a degree of advocacy.

I'm sure that viewing a director's films in a certain order has some bearing on one's impression of them, though not sure to what degree that's important compared to other things (one's mood or station in life, familiarity with a certain kind of cinema, etc). FALLEN ANGELS was my first WKW and I wasn't terribly impressed – it was CHUNGKING EXPRESS that did it for me, and DAYS OF BEING WILD that put me over the top. Though I suspect if I watched FALLEN ANGELS again I'd like it even more than CHUNGKING EXPRESS. I watched CITY OF SADNESS as a teenager and slept through half of it; now it's arguably my all-time favorite film. It took me a month to get into Hou over the course of a multi-weekend retro in SF back in 2000. The first couple films lulled me to sleep. It was FLOWERS OF SHANGHAI that broke through and after that all his films started to fall into place. (and if you want to see everything that's missing in IN THE MOOD FOR LOVE, you'll find it in FLOWERS). With Jia, it was love at first sight, and it had a lot to do with the period of my life I was in… more on that in another post…

]]> By: dogandpony http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/2009/02/best-of-the-decade-derby-in-the-mood-or-not-and-13-ways-of-looking-at-maggie-cheung/comment-page-1/#comment-32911 dogandpony Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:10:14 +0000 http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/?p=1211#comment-32911 Paraphrasing you from a later post- I think WKW films are about feeling more than thinking. Contempt and Godard have more ideas going on (thinking) but part of what I love is how true the "feel" parts of Godard films came across. INMFL isn't my top favorite WKW film (still not sure which one that would be) but I just recently saw it in a theatre for a second time and I liked it more than I did the first time, which was already a fair amount. The big screen is just so much more immersive and I think mood pieces work better there (as do, not to mention, epic pieces with near zero close-ups like Platform- on a 36" screen you can hardly even make out the characters' faces much of the time).<br>But the point I really wanted to make is this: how much you admire the films of directors who make the same impossibility-of-a-lasting-connection-between-people films over and over (including some of my favorite films and directors), one's estimation of these films may rely on the way you look at the world and possibly your mood at the time. I think it's possible to see them as just beautiful sacks of self absorption (I don't). Hopefully the film works its magic and you feel something even if it's something to which you can't relate.<br>Would you say it is a fair observation that you tend to favor the earlier works of many directors? (thinking of WKW, Zhang-Ke, and second period Hou, off the top of my head). Do you think there is something about earlier work that is more vital or more of the essence of these guys? Directors in general? I know you touched on the reasons for favoring Days of Being Wild. Have you seen the films in the order they were made? Does the order you view them in make a difference? The period of your life in which you first saw them? <br><br>Thanks for a great post.<br><br>p.s.- My Blueberry Nights further adds to ideas about the relative contributions of Christopher Doyle to Wong Kar Wai films. Paraphrasing you from a later post- I think WKW films are about feeling more than thinking. Contempt and Godard have more ideas going on (thinking) but part of what I love is how true the “feel” parts of Godard films came across. INMFL isn't my top favorite WKW film (still not sure which one that would be) but I just recently saw it in a theatre for a second time and I liked it more than I did the first time, which was already a fair amount. The big screen is just so much more immersive and I think mood pieces work better there (as do, not to mention, epic pieces with near zero close-ups like Platform- on a 36″ screen you can hardly even make out the characters' faces much of the time).
But the point I really wanted to make is this: how much you admire the films of directors who make the same impossibility-of-a-lasting-connection-between-people films over and over (including some of my favorite films and directors), one's estimation of these films may rely on the way you look at the world and possibly your mood at the time. I think it's possible to see them as just beautiful sacks of self absorption (I don't). Hopefully the film works its magic and you feel something even if it's something to which you can't relate.
Would you say it is a fair observation that you tend to favor the earlier works of many directors? (thinking of WKW, Zhang-Ke, and second period Hou, off the top of my head). Do you think there is something about earlier work that is more vital or more of the essence of these guys? Directors in general? I know you touched on the reasons for favoring Days of Being Wild. Have you seen the films in the order they were made? Does the order you view them in make a difference? The period of your life in which you first saw them?

Thanks for a great post.

p.s.- My Blueberry Nights further adds to ideas about the relative contributions of Christopher Doyle to Wong Kar Wai films.

]]> By: jesse http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/2009/02/best-of-the-decade-derby-in-the-mood-or-not-and-13-ways-of-looking-at-maggie-cheung/comment-page-1/#comment-32796 jesse Wed, 04 Mar 2009 01:53:35 +0000 http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/?p=1211#comment-32796 So I know we've kind of talked about this already, but I guess this demonstrates the perils of walking away from a "mood piece" halfway through--the spell is SO easily broken. But that also goes along with what we were talking about with "2046"--that for me ITMFL takes on additional resonance with that film, as the idealized situation of ITMFL (who can't relate?) is shattered and the emotional fallout has to be dealt with. I really do hope you decide to revisit it, though I'm not exactly convinced it'd change your mind on it...<br><br>-jesse So I know we've kind of talked about this already, but I guess this demonstrates the perils of walking away from a “mood piece” halfway through–the spell is SO easily broken. But that also goes along with what we were talking about with “2046″–that for me ITMFL takes on additional resonance with that film, as the idealized situation of ITMFL (who can't relate?) is shattered and the emotional fallout has to be dealt with. I really do hope you decide to revisit it, though I'm not exactly convinced it'd change your mind on it…

-jesse

]]> By: alsolikelife http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/2009/02/best-of-the-decade-derby-in-the-mood-or-not-and-13-ways-of-looking-at-maggie-cheung/comment-page-1/#comment-32791 alsolikelife Tue, 03 Mar 2009 12:57:41 +0000 http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/?p=1211#comment-32791 Hmm, great - does this mean I now have to watch My Blueberry Nights? I'm also debating if I need to rewatch 2046... <br><br>My favorite WKW remains Days of Being Wild. Still the most lively, multifaceted and in some ways emblematic of his work. <br><br>I wouldn't put ITMFL in the same league as Contempt, other than for its technical mastery. Contempt has more ideas going through its head - about cinema, about art and commerce, about multinational culture, and yes, about romantic betrayal - than ITMFL can even imagine. But if you're linking them in terms of how they portray failed love, I think an even better fit from this decade would be my favorite film I saw last month at Berlin, Maren Ade's EVERYTHING ELSE. Hmm, great – does this mean I now have to watch My Blueberry Nights? I'm also debating if I need to rewatch 2046…

My favorite WKW remains Days of Being Wild. Still the most lively, multifaceted and in some ways emblematic of his work.

I wouldn't put ITMFL in the same league as Contempt, other than for its technical mastery. Contempt has more ideas going through its head – about cinema, about art and commerce, about multinational culture, and yes, about romantic betrayal – than ITMFL can even imagine. But if you're linking them in terms of how they portray failed love, I think an even better fit from this decade would be my favorite film I saw last month at Berlin, Maren Ade's EVERYTHING ELSE.

]]> By: alsolikelife http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/2009/02/best-of-the-decade-derby-in-the-mood-or-not-and-13-ways-of-looking-at-maggie-cheung/comment-page-1/#comment-32790 alsolikelife Tue, 03 Mar 2009 12:54:10 +0000 http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/?p=1211#comment-32790 Your comment reminds me of MULHOLLAND DR. (a film I have somewhat similar feelings to with ITMFL). I remember Kent Jones reporting that he was shut out of a preview of the film because he arrived 5 minutes late. And of course the first release of the DVD has no chapters, intending the viewer to watch it from start to finish. <br><br>I'm obviously not a stickler about watching a movie uninterrupted. I'm sure it wasn't the intention for this film to be watched in segments - and it really does require at least 30 minutes of uninterrupted watching for the mood of the film to accumulate to where it's really cooking. But I don't think my viewing is invalidated because "it broke the rules" - it just offers a different perspective, which I think is helpful, one less swept up in the aura that the movie offers and looks at it more clinically. Maybe that's not so romantic but it's still insightful, like dissecting a rose to see what it's made of. Your comment reminds me of MULHOLLAND DR. (a film I have somewhat similar feelings to with ITMFL). I remember Kent Jones reporting that he was shut out of a preview of the film because he arrived 5 minutes late. And of course the first release of the DVD has no chapters, intending the viewer to watch it from start to finish.

I'm obviously not a stickler about watching a movie uninterrupted. I'm sure it wasn't the intention for this film to be watched in segments – and it really does require at least 30 minutes of uninterrupted watching for the mood of the film to accumulate to where it's really cooking. But I don't think my viewing is invalidated because “it broke the rules” – it just offers a different perspective, which I think is helpful, one less swept up in the aura that the movie offers and looks at it more clinically. Maybe that's not so romantic but it's still insightful, like dissecting a rose to see what it's made of.

]]> By: Pieter http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/2009/02/best-of-the-decade-derby-in-the-mood-or-not-and-13-ways-of-looking-at-maggie-cheung/comment-page-1/#comment-32789 Pieter Tue, 03 Mar 2009 02:45:30 +0000 http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/?p=1211#comment-32789 Good writing. And you are right! I saw Lust, Caution the other day and Leung does look like Obama. Good writing. And you are right! I saw Lust, Caution the other day and Leung does look like Obama.

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